Comments on: Common programme for European Pirate Parties – united in diversity

By: Frantisek Ulc

Frantisek Ulc — Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:55:47 +0000

Ay, I think too that Jerry is totaly right. Yesterday we had a meeting of Foreign dept. (Czech PP) and we agreed on the same ideas. Also we agreed that the PP-EU needs to be more organized. I fully understand why Germans may (or do) have a problem with the delegate form of PP-EU. On the other hand some sort of organization has to be there otherwise we risk (and there is a big chance of it) having a lot of people talking about everything, but agreeing on nothing. If Germans want to change the delegates often, its only their way. If some other PP wants to have the same delegate for a longer time, no problem. I think there should be no rules about this and its a matter of every single PP. On the other hand I think the number of delegates should be limited and votes (if there is any voting within the PP-EU – which should definitely sooner or later come) would be equal – one country = one vote, regardless of the number of delegates the country has.

I think PP-EU has to be organized and have a solid structure bacause in case we get to PP-EU, we have to be organized there too. Its always better to be prepared beforehand for what may come than to start solving things as they come.

Also I think that PP have quite a lot of common goals not only in the field of cenzorship, copyrights etc. We have to show the public all over the Europe that PPs are not a bunch of IT freaks and internet pirates, but well educated people understanding vast scale of problematics of the society and also caring about them. Sure there have to be a discussion, but it has to have a certain form and organization so we can achieve goals. From my profession I know that without goals, deadlines and organization its very hard to achieve anything even in a small group of people. And convincing the public in fair means (wihtout propaganda, silly slogans and milions thrown into campaign) is very hard thing to achieve. Cooperation on EU level will definitely strengthen the position of every national PP within EU. Still as was said before, it has to be an open-minded platform without any punishment for PPs that refuse or disagree any single agreement. People around EU are quite angry already about how EU forces countries to sign treaties and agreements they dont agree with (maybe its just UK and Czech republic, but I doubt that).

I think many people see that different parties are not able to cooperate on national level and they see the mess on the EU level which is from my point of view even bigger than on national levels. How can they agree on international level when they cant agree on the national one. We should show people that this is possible.

I shall be responsible for the PP-EU project in Czech republic. Now I start working on creating the PP-EU platform with the delegate form. I hope poeple from other PP-EU parties will cooperate so this is a common work from the start. So I would like other EU countries to appoint delegates to work on this with me. It doesnt mean other members from the national PPs wouldnt be able to participate, but it is necessary that they will participate through the delegates. Sure every EU PP will have an inside discussion with exact outcomes which will be discussed by the delegates. Its a way how national suverenity, discussion and the grassroot principle of every single PP in EU is preserved while maximising the effectivity of PP-EU. Also the group can start its work quite immediately as a very loose organization and get tighter in the future if needed and desired.

Let me know your thoughts and comments, please.

By: Justus Römeth

Justus Römeth — Sun, 20 May 2012 17:52:20 +0000

Don’t be too sure about that. I’d be in favour of calling it ‘Pirate Parties Europe’ or something like that then, just to make sure.

By: Dario

Dario — Sun, 20 May 2012 15:13:31 +0000

This is the way I hope PP-EU (as common coordination platform for european electiosn) will end.

By: Jerry Weyer

Jerry Weyer — Sat, 19 May 2012 11:50:40 +0000

They already accepted it with PPI. They accept it in Liquid Feedback too. I’m not saying we need only delegates or that I want them even I’m just saying that that option has to be considered at least until we figure out how to get 750 Million European participate in a project. Don’t think most Pirates won’t understand that.

By: Alan Winkleman

Alan Winkleman — Sat, 19 May 2012 11:46:54 +0000

‘Delegate’ is a dirty word for most German pirates.
Some measure of delegation is however necessary. If delegates are open and often changed, I see no problem.
Any vote choosing a chairman or secretary is a form of delegation.
I find Jerry’s positions and argumentation really excellent.

Alan Winkleman
Hannover

By: Justus Römeth

Justus Römeth — Fri, 18 May 2012 21:56:49 +0000

A delegate structure for PPEU will simply be unacceptable for the majority of German pirates in anything but a very short run.

By: Jerry Weyer

Jerry Weyer — Fri, 18 May 2012 17:13:36 +0000

This work would at this point not involve PPEU as a structure. That might come afterwards, but we cannot wait for PPEU to be founded to start working on it. Your points are valid nontheless

By: Azrael

Azrael — Fri, 18 May 2012 16:14:50 +0000

I think your point about national Parties rejecting the work of PPEU is a very valid one. There is a risk. Given that it is the national Parties that will be presenting any common policy platform to electorates, it makes sense that the very structure and membership of PPEU is those same national Parties.

The closer the relationship between national Parties and the decision making body of the PPEU, the greater harmony and the lower the chance of rejection.

If the PPEU consists of delegates from national Parties, then the work of those delegates can be more closely linked to the views of national Parties, and the turn-around time of PPEU discussion being put to national Parties will be minimised.